Page 4 -  Conversation: Rosenberg + Kaufman .... / March

SR: In his mind.

JW: So for him it�s a sort of a curatorial role.

SR: Exactly, for example when the Peter Wayne Lewis show was up, which you reviewed. David, who is a percussionist, had part of the group that he�s involved with called the International Contemporary Percussion Ensemble in here.  There was flute music and David performed on various percussion instruments.  Now, one thing that�s particularly difficult with abstract art, especially these days, is to get people to stand or sit still long enough to really look at the art.

JW: Absolutely true.

SR: None of the art we show can be comprehended in 30 seconds; the more you look the more you see. So we had maybe 70 to 80 people here for David�s performance with Peter�s show up and people came up to us afterwards and said it was unbelievable that �as the music was playing, I saw and felt the paintings vibrating and moving�.

JW: That�s quite a reaction.

SR: Yes, they got the point.

JW: But you know that doesn�t really surprise me and for a couple of reasons. As a painter myself I usually work with music playing; in part for accompaniment, but I also think it affects my perception of time. Listening to music is not distracting in the way that, say, television is; there�s no narrative to pay attention to. And similarly painting has the same effect on the perception of time.

SR: Something else that occurs to me is that if you can keep people looking at art long enough it keeps them from anthropomorphizing every single thing on the wall. Most people have a tendency to try and make something that isn�t familiar, be familiar.

JW: Right, right, they�re looking for the narrative.

SR: Yes. But it�s interesting, for example, to take an artist like David Stern who uses figurative elements in paintings that basically make use of an abstract language so that people become totally involved with his technique and never see the figure.

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JW: Oh yes, I can easily see how that would happen with his work.

But let me ask you this, earlier you mentioned that your clientele is made up of American and European collectors and I�m wondering if you see significant differences between the two?

FK: I think there are some differences. A lot of our European collectors come to the art more knowledgeable about art history. Probably that�s because it�s so much a part of their culture. In a lot of the European cities art is prevalent, even in the architecture, and everything is so much more accessible. They are so immersed in the culture that when they come to look at abstract art they are just much more informed.  On the other hand a lot of our American collectors are eager to learn. There is a very high level of inquisitiveness and curiosity about art and so a large part of our role is to educate them. This led to a program we started last year for new collectors. It�s become ongoing to talk to them about how to look at art and not to be afraid to ask questions.

SR: One of the things we�ve found to be interesting over the past few years is that younger people have become bored with the phenomena of technology and are looking for something more substantive to grapple with. They are especially interested in looking at a work of art and wanting to know more about it such as how the artist came to a particular point of view.  I�ve found that quite heartening because, since we are dealing with contemporary artists, obviously you want their peers to have some interest in their work. Fran and I play this game where we watch how someone approaches and looks at a work of art and then try to determine, first whether or not they�re an artist, but also whether they are familiar with looking at art. Quite often we can make the distinctions.

JW: Well given the time you�ve been involved with running a gallery and observing viewers I�d expect that you would pick up on that very quickly.

FK: Most of the time we do, but the other thing that has been heartening, in addition to what Stephen said, is that a lot of the younger collectors are coming in and they have this willingness to be astonished, which hasn�t always been true.

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