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 Page 2 / Conversation with Philip Pavia...

More than 20 artists worked in that one block. Then there was Washington Square Park - our “Little Paris”, full of refugees from Europe. Around the corner we had Jackson Pollock who lived a block and a half away. We were known as the 10th street enclave.

8th street had always been full of artists. Gertrude Whitney had a big studio house there. She made it into a studio / gallery / club. She was a model, a sculptor and quite well off, of course, and very generous.

Back then you would walk down 8th street and see all the artists. Down on Bleeker Street there was a bar, the San Remo that was also a gathering place and served lousy beer.

JW: Who else was in the clique, the Little Paris group?

PP: Varese the famous composer was its leader. Marcel Duchamp and Varese were very close friends and Duchamp would come around the park.

JW: Were the French artists a unified group?

PP: Actually there was also Bretons Surrealist bunch. Their hangout was a few doors down from San Remos - a restaurant called Volpe. In Washington Square Park they had their own quarters. Breton wanted only his own personal entorage, only his own artists.

JW: What was it like for women back then?

PP: Women really ran a lot of the art world - several of them were gallery owners. There was Peggy Guggenheim and her big gallery (Art of This Century). During the wartime she was showing people like Kandinsky and Peggy was not afraid to tell any dealer or any curator off. She gave a show of 33 women in her gallery. Gertrude Whitney’s house was the foundation for the Whitney museum. Woman like Lee Krasner and Elaine De Kooning and others were very actively involved.

JW: There was also Betty Parsons’ gallery. Did the end of the War expand the community a great deal?

.PP: Yes, they all came home and from all over, as far away as California. Many of them were WPA artists

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JW: Did the war have much affect on your work?

PP: I dont know how to explain it to you. There is something about the horror of war that gets inside of you even if you are just reading about [the events] the next day.

JW: During the war many Europeans were living here. Did you, as a group, have much interaction with them?

PP: Yes, we went to all of their shows - Kandinsky, Mondrian, Duchamp, Breton, Leger. Kandinsky was the head of the whole migration from Europe but he stayed. The Surrealists, you’d see them on 8th street or at the San Remo and they would say hello to you, maybe. “Duchamp’s Little France” we called them. We didnt say “Paris” because they didnt want be called that. Duchamp used to come to Washington Square Park to see his friends. He liked it down here because he belonged to a chess club on 10th street.

JW: Thats right, I recall reading that Man Ray used to hang out there too with Duchamp. He [Man Ray] wasnt good at chess but he loved to sculpt chess pieces. How did you get along with the Surrealists?

Picture

Philip Pavia - Ceramic Head Sculpture from his 2005 show at the O.K. Harris Gallery

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